Ashurst global head of finance Helen Burton has been mentored by London senior associate Nicole Williams since 2017.

The firm first ran a reverse mentoring pilot scheme in London in 2016 which saw 19 pairings between partners and senior business services leaders and a range of people at different levels, from trainee to senior associate.

Ashurst launched the programme officially in 2017 in the UK, mostly using trainees as mentors, and in early 2018 it began operating globally. It is open to all senior associates, counsel and partners.

Burton and Williams meet every six to eight weeks and spend roughly an hour together. They are also now working outside this timeframe on initiatives that have come out of their mentoring sessions such as social mobility.

What has your experience of mentoring Helen been like? 

Nicole Williams: Having Helen as a mentee has been a fantastic experience. Not only has it given me the opportunity to meet one of the most successful people at the firm, and a northern, state-school educated woman at that, it has also given me a real insight into how to effectively manage one's career and how to both take and make opportunities to progress to the senior level within an organisation.

Why did you sign up to reverse mentoring?

Helen Burton: I think that as one becomes more senior and spends more time in an organisation, it can become easy to forget the pressures and obstacles which loom large at different stages of one's career. The opportunity to find out what we can do to improve the working environment for today's associates is an opportunity not to be missed.

I think of myself as an empathetic person, but throughout my time working as part of the diversity and inclusion group I still find myself hearing about issues that had never even occurred to me. Thus, to hear from someone from a different background to me about their experiences in the workplace has been very interesting.

NW: Helen and I are working together on social mobility and the ways in which we can improve this area not only in the context of recruitment of trainee solicitors and other new personnel to the firm but also throughout the career of lawyers and other Ashurst staff.

Ashurst has made significant improvements in this area over the years. However, there is still room for improvement. I hope working with Helen on social mobility will allow us to focus on perhaps one of the more challenging areas of the diversity and inclusion agenda.

What have you learnt from your mentor/mentee?

HB: That things haven't changed as much as I had thought, and that we have a lot more in common than I would probably have anticipated. Nicole has had a hugely positive influence on me professionally, and I hope that working together we can make a difference for many people within the firm.

We are still fairly early in our mentoring relationship, but Nicole has made me focus on social mobility as a law firm issue whereas I had always thought it needed to be addressed at a much earlier stage than upon entering the workplace. Nicole's observation that this could be a factor impacting someone's belief whether she or he belonged at Ashurst (as much or even more than gender or ethnicity), was something I hadn't expected and it has made us look closely at our actions around social mobility.

NW: Helen is an incredibly humble person and I have learnt a lot from her on strength of character. One of the key things I have taken away from our mentoring sessions is that you have to take the opportunities put before you without worrying whether or not you will be successful or fail.

I think many people, particularly women, question whether or not we are equipped to take on a new role or challenge, whether we have all the right boxes ticked and hesitate until we feel we are best prepared – inevitably, this often means we miss the boat. Helen really is an example of someone who has a 'can do' attitude and will face a challenge head on, in my view it is one of the key attributes that has led to her success, it is definitely something I would like to emulate.

What are the key challenges to making the reverse-mentor relationship work effectively?

HB: There has to be good rapport and mutual respect. I genuinely look forward to the time I spend with Nicole – I find our conversation thought-provoking but constructive. I see this as a collaboration and hope that we will work together to address issues which come out of our discussions

NW: Remembering who is the mentor and who is the mentee. It is such a great opportunity for me to speak to Helen about my career and ask her for advice, but that is not aim of a reverse-mentor relationship. Having said that and luckily for me, in reverse mentoring Helen, I have received some of the best career advice and also on a personal level, she has really made me believe even more in the firm and opportunities available to all within it.

What has been a career-defining moment for you?

HB: Joining Ashurst's executive team – the opportunity to get involved in the management of the firm and understand the business decisions made regularly in global international firms has been fantastic. I love the fact it has opened up a whole new side to a career in law.

NW: Returning to private practice from working in industry. Not one of the 'normal' legal career routes, to leave private practice for industry and then to return and for me this was a big decision, particularly at a time when many of my peers were moving the other way. I made the decision to return because I missed the work and also the business aspect of growing and developing a business. This decision to move also came at a critical point in my personal life, a few weeks after my engagement. It was important for me to look for a firm that would fit with both my career aspirations and also my home life and I felt a move to Ashurst would meet these requirements and it has.

What else would you like to see law firms do to improve gender equality in the workplace?

HB: Law firms obviously have a long way to go, as does society as a whole, but I do think we are trying. For me, the main thing is that firms need to recognise that there is more than one 'good' model of a successful lawyer. That is why having female role models in senior positions is fantastic – we have gender equality in our trainee cohort, and the more women we can get to stay in the profession for longer, the more role models we have – which will deliver a multiplier effect for junior lawyers.

NW: I would like to see more senior personnel within the organisations actively promoting and practising flexible working arrangements. Leading by example, is, in my opinion, the quickest way to effect change within an organisation. The more that it becomes the norm at all levels in law firms to work from home and have less conventional 'working days', the easier it will be to retain talent within these organisations.

I would also like to see reverse mentoring implemented throughout all law firms, with real thought taken in the pairing of individuals in a way that will allow a cross-pollination of ideas and experiences.

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