DOJ Wants to Show Jury Roger Stone Is a Bigger Liar Than He's Charged With Being
The government wants to show that Stone "did not come in like a surgeon, trying to lie about one specific question."
September 25, 2019 at 02:36 PM
5 minute read
Federal prosecutors want to prove that Roger Stone is a liar—and not just about his contacts with WikiLeaks.
During a pretrial hearing in federal court Wednesday, attorneys with the U.S. Attorney's Office for D.C. urged U.S. District Judge Amy Berman Jackson of the District of Columbia to allow them to argue before a jury that Stone wanted to obstruct the House Intelligence Committee's Russia investigation with not just the false statements he's charged with making, but through other alleged lies too.
They honed in on Stone's response to a question about whether he had been in touch with the Trump campaign over a political action committee Stone started in support of the then-candidate, saying the longtime GOP operative lied when he told the committee he hadn't.
"The government's position is he went in with the intent to lie. Not only lie about his communications with WikiLeaks, but also as to any other matter," said Michael Marando, an assistant attorney general.
Marando said that pertained to Stone's contacts with the Trump campaign, alleging that Stone "went in with a clear plan to lie, to separate himself from the campaign, in order to shield the lies about his connections to WikiLeaks."
And he said that federal prosecutors have "voluminous evidence" showing Stone was in "communication with the highest levels of the campaign," about the PAC, just short of candidate Trump himself.
Jackson seemed wary of allowing the evidence to come into court, raising concerns that it would add time to the trial in order to prove an allegation that Stone wasn't charged with.
But Marando argued the government wants to show that Stone "did not come in like a surgeon, trying to lie about one specific question."
"He went in with a mindset, your honor. And his mindset was, 'I'm going to obstruct this investigation,'" Marando said.
Stone's Fort Lauderdale-based attorney Bruce Rogow said the evidence should not be admitted into court. He argued that doing so would open the door as to whether Stone violated campaign finance laws, and that contact with the campaign did not fall under the scope of the House Intelligence Committee's Russia probe Stone was testifying in.
While Jackson did not rule on the matter, she made it clear that she was not buying Stone's defense that he may have been "mistaken" in answering some questions before the committee.
"I'm not persuaded by one of the arguments the defense made, that the answer was unclear," Jackson said. "I think 'no' is about as clear of a 'no' a person can give."
She also took a swipe at Stone's and Rogow's frequent efforts to bring up whether Stone's rights to free speech are being put on trial.
"Once again, this trial is not going to be about the First Amendment," Jackson said, "despite his dogged efforts to turn it into a discussion of that topic."
Jackson also rejected Stone's efforts to include evidence on Russian election interference in the trial. She sided with the government's assertions that Stone will largely be on trial for allegedly lying to Congress, and not on hacking charges.
"This was an investigation," she said, noting that Stone's allegedly false statements stopped the House from being thorough in following other lines of investigation and obtaining materials that Stone claimed in his testimony didn't exist.
And she wasn't happy about Rogow's insinuation that he may raise questions about former special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation in questioning potential witnesses, like Jerome Corsi or former White House strategist Steve Bannon.
"We're not going to try the investigators here, or the investigation," Jackson said.
But Rogow said he may have to do so when pressing certain witnesses like Corsi, who has said he was offered a plea deal by Mueller, about the circumstances of such agreements.
Jackson did not rule on the issue, but said she wants to avoid "having heated arguments in front of the jury or long bench conferences" if she believes some of Rogow's questions are out of line.
Jackson also ruled on some of the government's list of proposed exhibits. The judge left it up to attorneys for the government and Stone to figure out a deal regarding whether a clip of "The Godfather: Part II" should be shown to the jury.
She stumbled over the pronunciation of the fictional character Frank Pentangeli, who Stone allegedly referenced while attempting to convince expected trial witness Randy Credico to not testify before the House committee.
Jackson also took issue with another government exhibit showing Stone's phone contacts with members of the Trump campaign, including the president. Stone's lawyers had objected to the use of the chart, arguing that it didn't tell the full picture of his contacts with the campaign.
While she said it could be used in trial, Jackson said she found the color choices on the chart too confusing to follow along.
"There should be three clearly different colors," she instructed the Justice Department lawyers. "A light blue, a red or something else. Something you can tell is not blue."
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