Gordon Sondland arrives at the Capitol on Wednesday, November 20, 2019. Credit: Diego M. Radzinschi /ALM

Gordon Sondland, the U.S. ambassador to the European Union, distanced himself Wednesday from President Donald Trump's personal lawyer Rudolph Giuliani, telling lawmakers in the House impeachment inquiry that top administration officials did not want the former New York City mayor involved in dealings with Ukraine.

"First, Secretary Perry, Ambassador Volker and I worked with Mr. Rudy Giuliani on Ukraine matters at the express direction of the President of the United States. We did not want to work with Mr. Giuliani. Simply put, we played the hand we were dealt," Sondland said in his opening statement. "We all understood that if we refused to work with Mr. Giuliani, we would lose an important opportunity to cement relations between the United States and Ukraine. So we followed the president's orders."

Sondland added that, while those top Trump administration officials disagreed with the "need to involve" Giuliani, they did not believe his role in U.S. policy toward Ukraine was improper at the time. If he had known of Giuliani's interactions with Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, business associates who have since been indicted, "I would not have acquiesced to his participation," Sondland said.

"Still, given what we knew at the time, what we were asked to do did not appear to be wrong."

The testimony came in the fourth public hearing in the House impeachment inquiry, which is probing the Trump administration's efforts to leverage U.S. military aid to Ukraine to pressure the country to investigate former Vice President Joseph Biden and his son Hunter. Trump administration also held out a White House meeting to Ukraine's newly elected president, Volodymyr Zelensky, as it requested an investigation of the Bidens and a debunked theory that Ukraine interfered in the U.S. presidential election in 2016.

Trump and his allies have refuted that there was any untoward pressure put on Ukraine. The president has described his interaction with Zelensky as "perfect."

Sondland's opening statement included a remarkable declaration that Trump's pressure campaign amounted to a quid pro quo.

"Was there a 'quid pro quo?' As I testified previously, with regard to the requested White House call and White House meeting, the answer is yes," Sondland said. When Giuliani directly requested investigations into the Bidens and the 2016 election, Sondland said, he and other top administration officials understood that those prerequisites for a White House meeting reflected Trump's desires.

In previous days of testimony, career diplomats stressed the value that a White House meeting would have conferring legitimacy on Zelensky, a political neophyte who won election on a platform of rooting out corruption in Ukraine.

"We did not want to involve Mr. Giuliani. I believed then, as I do now, that the men and women of the State Department, not the President's personal lawyer, should take responsibility for Ukraine matters," Sondland testified.

House Republicans are expected to attack Sondland's credibility. Sondland, represented by Paul Hastings partners Robert Luskin and Kwame Manley, first appeared for a private deposition weeks ago, and there he did not assert any memory of a quid pro quo between the Trump administration and Ukraine.

Robert Luskin of Paul Hastings, a lawyer for Gordon Sondland. Credit: Diego M. Radzinschi / ALM

Sondland later made a significant change to his deposition testimony,  telling lawmakers that he now remembered informing a Zelensky aide that U.S. military assistance was contingent on investigations into the Bidens and the 2016 election.

On Wednesday, Sondland complained that he has not had access to all of his phone records, State Department emails and other documents that would have helped him prepare for questioning.

"Having access to the State Department materials would have been very helpful to me in trying to reconstruct with whom I spoke and met, when and what was said," Sondland said.

 

Read Sondland's opening statement below:

 

 

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