Former Acting U.S. Attorney General Sally Yates, in a podcast interview this week, discussed why in 2017 she refused to allow DOJ lawyers to argue for President Donald Trump’s original travel ban.

At the same time, she explained to MSNBC podcast host Chuck Rosenberg, himself a former U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia and the Southern District of Texas, why she thought it was more important to defy the president on the issue—leading to her firing—rather than simply resign.

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