Two prominent judges of color said Tuesday that sustained pressure and savvy politicking are needed to address the shortage of racial and ethnic minorities on the bench.

Speaking at the annual conference of the National Bar Association in Midtown Manhattan, U.S. District Judges Sterling Johnson Jr. of the Eastern District of New York and George B. Daniels of the Southern District of New York stressed the importance of putting solid potential jurists on the radar of senators and other people who wield influence in the selection of federal and state judges.

Johnson, who served for more than a decade as the special narcotics prosecutor for New York City before being appointed to the federal bench by President George H.W. Bush, described how he brought pressure to bear. He described for the dozens of black lawyers in the audience how he once met with Sen. Charles Schumer, D-New York, about the historical lack of Democrat-appointed judges in his district.

“He said, 'get me a list,'” Johnson said. “I got him a list, and some of the people on that list are judges today.”

Daniels, who served as a New York state judge before being appointed to the federal bench, said it was important to bend the ear of influential people—even if it meant expressing one's own interest in judicial service. “The public has to demand that the judiciary reflects the rest of the country,” he said.

U.S. Magistrate Judge Ramon Reyes struck a different note from his colleagues. He said one path to the federal bench was by becoming a magistrate judge, which involves a merit-based selection process. But Daniels said politics—a more personal, less party-driven variety—still plays a role in those positions. “You're still going to have to impress people,” he said.

“Everything, there's politics in it,” he said. “'Who do I know, who do I respect, who do I like, who did I work with'—those things play a part. We're human beings, they have to play a part.”

The judges took questions on a variety of topics, such as whether oral argument can affect the outcome of a motion (it can, they agreed, but requires a foundation of good briefing); the merits of mediation; how lawyers should approach settlement conferences; and discretion in sentencing.

Johnson was vocal on the issue of sentencing, noting that crimes involving powdered cocaine have long been treated differently than those involving crack cocaine, which has resulted in harsh sentences for black defendants. He contrasted the sentencing of crack-cocaine defendants with the treatment of Jeffrey Epstein, who was reportedly allowed to leave jail for six days a week and was treated gently by Florida authorities even though an investigation had reportedly implicated him in dozens of sex crimes.

One audience member asked whether it was appropriate to “nudge” judges to rule on a motion. The question was fielded by Daniels, who was called the “king of delayed decisions” by The New York Times in 2004 because of the number of motions that had been briefed for more than six months with no ruling. The latest analysis of federal court records indicates that not a single one of Daniels' civil motions has been pending that long, however.

“There are genuinely times when cases fall through the cracks,” said Daniels, in response to the question. “A polite nudge might help sometimes. … You've got to be very selective.”

Xavier Donaldson, of Donaldson & Chilliest, moderated the event for the National Bar Association, the nation's oldest and largest national network of predominantly African American attorneys and judges. Donaldson kicked off the event by asking the judges a few questions in a “lightning round” Q&A:

Q: Favorite book?

Reyes: “No question, 'The Hobbit.'”

Daniels: “One of my favorites is a biography of Thurgood Marshall.”

Johnson: “My favorite authors are David Ignatius, John Grisham, Tom Clancy.”

Q: Knicks or Mets?

Reyes: “I'm a lifelong Knicks fan.”

Daniels: “I'm a fair-weather fan.”

Johnson: “I'm a Knicks fan.”

Q: Jets or Giants?

Reyes: “Despite the fact that I come from a family of Giants fans … Jets.”

Daniels: “A little preference for the Giants.”

Johnson: “I'm a Giants fan. True blue.”

Q: Will you be watching Mueller's congressional testimony?

Reyes: “I'll probably have it on in the background, but won't pay too much attention to it because I've got a day job.”

Johnson: “I'm absolutely going to watch it, because President Trump said he's not going to watch it, but he's going to watch it. … Hope I'm not disappointed, either.”