Justice Teri Jackson of California's First District Court of Appeal was sitting in her chambers and had taken her robes off, preparing for the next slate of hearings, when a lawyer entered and said to her, "Young lady, go fetch the judge."

"Here we are in 2020, and it still goes on," said Jackson, the first African American woman on the appellate court's bench, at an Association of Business Trial Lawyers event in San Francisco on Tuesday.

All six women on the panel, titled "Gender Bias in the Courtroom: Overcoming Challenges Facing Women Lawyers," shared stories about how they had to navigate additional hurdles in the already all-consuming profession.

Retired U.S. Magistrate Judge Elizabeth Laporte of the Northern District of California, now an arbitrator at JAMS, moderated the discussion, which was co-hosted by the group she founded, the Women Attorneys Advocacy Project.

Boies Schiller Flexner's Quyen Ta said they wanted to take the project on the road, because they're normally looking into a sea of women. "And these problems don't just affect women," Ta said.

Here's the case the legal powerhouses made for why every member at the firm should care about the obstacles women face.

Bringing Everyone In

Don't assume it's always men whose unconscious biases make lawyers' jobs harder, said Kate Dyer of white-collar defense and civil litigation boutique Clarence Dyer & Cohen. Sometimes, it's other women. Early in her career, Dyer was told she needed to dress more feminine to be taken seriously. "For people who know me, if they saw me in makeup and heels, they would've thought I was in drag," she said. "But it was a woman who told me to do it." Dyer noted that she also has a friend who wears Jimmy Choos and a pencil skirt and crams arguments down the throats of her opposing counsel while doing it. Everyone needs to find their power and authenticity, she said.

It can also be a more experienced lawyer targeting an inexperienced one, Dyer said. Jan Little of Keker, Van Nest & Peters emphasized the importance of giving feedback early and often to help less seasoned co-workers build up their confidence. "Let them know they're good," she said.

"Or not," Ta said. She underlined the importance of honesty and said she will stop an interview midway through to give feedback, so that applicants can do better when they go for their next job. "We can't be good all the time; we've got to start from somewhere," she said.

Ta said it's critical to hold yourself accountable to create diverse trial teams, and then give them a chance to take the lead. "Appoint co-lead counsel, and it's really important to go to court and call them co-lead counsel, and that way you also don't have to go to every [case management conference]," she joked.

Intersectionality, or Whatever You Want to Call It

Ta said it's not easy to start off in the profession as a woman, let alone a woman of color. "I'm a Vietnamese refugee and an AmLaw partner—those things don't really go together," she said.

"They do now," Laporte said.

They do now, Ta said, continuing, but her path remains difficult. She said she recognized that it's not just about gender or race. It's about class, as well, and it's important to think about intersectionality, "or whatever you want to call it," she said.

"It can be a very isolating place when you're surrounded by people whose parents were lawyers talking about vacations and places you've never been," she said. "It's something law firm leaders need to recognize and support." To that end, Ta co-founded the Berkeley Law First Generation Professionals Institute, creating a pipeline and community of working-class lawyers.

Dyer said it can also be difficult for LGBTQ individuals to traverse the traditional legal industry, for instance having to casually come out to coworkers. "I have been shocked by the people that I have shocked, and then I feel like I have to take care of them," she said.  Once people are out in the workplace, she said, don't be afraid to ask them about their weekend or their families.

Ruth Bond, Renne Public Law Group, on a panel discussion on "Gender Bias in the Courtroom: Overcoming Challenges Facing Women Lawyers." (Photo: Jason Doiy/ALM)

Family Ties

When an audience member asked how to suss out which firms accommodate parents, despite the industry's informal "don't-ask, don't-tell" policy about the subject, Little encouraged her to ask about parenting policies. "You can judge a firm to some extent based on the policy," she said.

Ruth Bond of Renne Public Law Group said this work-life balance problem is one many men are struggling with, as well. Bond, who spent 14 years as a deputy city attorney with the San Francisco City Attorney's Office, said when she was at a firm she didn't feel like she could find equilibrium with family and career. One of the reasons she took the job at the City Attorney's Office was because it had on-site day care, she said. "I've had four children thanks to day care and was still able to litigate full-time at a pretty high level."

An all-hands-on-deck approach to handling child care can also be effective. Laporte said more men taking paternity leave has allowed mothers to more easily reintegrate into the workplace. And once children are old enough, they can also step up. "My children babysat for Jan's," she said of her law-school peer.

"That's right, put them to work," Little said.